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ghost_valley2021-07-27 05:45 pm
rekishi) wrote in ghost_valley2021-07-27 05:45 pm
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[Tian Ya Ke (Re-)Readalong] Chapter 12-14
Welcome back!
Today's chapters are:
Chapter 12 – Illusions
Chapter 13 – Exposed
Chapter 14 – Escape
Zhou Zishu and Wen Kexing spend a whole day together in the cave they fell into last time without seriously trying to kill each other. Some other stuff happens, but that's the important bit.
Chapter 12
Chapter 13
Chapter 14
We get some action, which is quite nice, but tbh I refuse to believe that WKX, who has been watching ZZS quite intently because of the disguise, only now notices that ZZS has internal injuries (from the Nails). But it is probably his best opportunity to bring it up, since ZZS has actually let his guard down a little and got himself injured.
(Also ZZS, as if you ever eat enough food. Tsk.)
Fun with languages:
As ZZS sees the peach tree (one of Siji Manor's trees no doubt) with Jiuxiao beneath it, what do you think WKX really sees in that moment? At the same time, apparently they both see the underwater creatures as a little girl - probably a way to get prey close enough - so are these two things caused by the hallucinogen?
But I love their little banter here about WKX carrying ZZS as long as he gets to see his face. It's cute and since ZZS has stopped bristling and is instead giving him a little laugh; their relationship (as in, the way they interact with each other rather than anything beyond that) has clearly turned a corner. It's part attrition, for sure, but also probably partially WKX staying relatively calm throughout this whole endeavour with the confidence that he can hold his own and ZZS can recognize that if nothing else.
We get our first reference to Wu Xi and where ZZS has his repertoire of drugs (and antidotes) from.
Okay everyone… I know this is wuxia so this doesn't really apply, but running water does not mean it's drinkable or that you should clean your wounds with it! I mean, it's a sweet gesture and does show that WKX cares, but this is potentially worse than letting the wound alone until they can get proper help.
All of these wuxia heroes and their questionable medical science. Can we please get Wu Xi back? At least he knew what he was doing, mostly.
I could go on about that handkerchief. I won't because I do think it's a nice detail for priest to include, but in the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. We might argue that it confirms that the 'old lover' is losing importance for WKX if they ever were and that it marks him as gay but… Eh.
Possibly the only notable fact is that ZZS calls him 老兄, which I personally probably wouldn't have translated as "my (good) friend" as the translators do, I would probably have gone for something a bit more casual. Unless ZZS means this ironically, but I can't actually tell just from the text? Well, at least WKX pays him back for that bit.
What I love about the novel is the nonchalant way in which the identities and affiliations are revealed. WKX already asked last week, sort of, but was interrupted by the monster so it was left hanging. We get a bit of a call-back to Qi Ye here with the Flower Queen and the Fullmoon River (which is subtle and you only know it when you've read it), which is sweet, but WKX just throws the bait for Tian Chuang out there very casually and ZZS bites and confirms it… But WKX wouldn't have done it unless he was pretty sure about it. I'm not sure he knows just who exactly ZZS is within Tian Chuang, but he has deduced quite a bit here right down to the Nails.
(How does WKX, who is an outsider of all of Siji Manor, Tian Chuang, and the Court/Capital, know about the Nails? I don't remember if this is ever explained, but I don't think so.)
Once the Nails do calm down ZZS is more or less back to his self from a few hours ago, even fishing one of the creatures out of the river.
What struck me is the discussion we get about being afraid of death. I knew we were headed there eventually, but I didn't remember that it was this early. I find this especially poignant as a) ZZS is sick unto dying and b) WKX knows about the Nails and therefore must know what their eventual outcome is (hence probably his surprise). ZZS meanwhile must be more than aware of his own mortality and yet he's relatively open about his concern for death (but gives it the 'I can't go to hell with this few merits' spin) which… I'm not sure how to read this exactly, but I'm also rather sure that ZZS isn't just having WKX on here so there is at least a kernel of truth to his concerns. Thoughts on this?
WKX displays that he has certain merits as an actor, even if ZZS doesn't actually buy it (he probably thinks what a little shit his companion is), which clearly surprises him. Also his Wen "Good Person" Kexing act was almost up since they caught themselves an actual ghost.
Language fun!
Chinese version: 你真太不是东西了
Sparklingwater version: You’re so full of nonsense.
Xuxunette version: You're such a jerk.
Calling him a jerk is a bit strong here and gives the whole exchange a connotation it doesn't have. 不是东西 is literally "no good [for any]thing" so a good-for-nothing, putting the 真太 there makes it basically in a way that ZZS rolls his eyes and says 'you absolute waste of skin'. Poor WKX.
Questions here: Why does GV try to get rid of WKX this early on? And secondly, omg why is GV branding their members? I know Tian Chuang also have tattoos (the branch of a plum tree), which is equally stupid, you don't make your secret assassins that recognizable.
And we have our first piece of Glazed Armor!
(Of note: I will retain 'Glazed Armor' as term from SHL, because 'Lapis Amor' doesn't quite fit imo, as lapis is associated with a specific sort of gemstone (lapis lazuli) or colour (deep blue), none of which quite fits. Xuxunette makes the following note: "琉璃 (liuli) refers to different types of crystal, semi-precious gem and glaze work. In context, the older meaning should be retained: a natural gemstone or crystal.
Liuli is one of the Seven Treasures of Buddhism alongside gold, silver, and other substances that vary depending on the source."
So I'll retain Glazed Armor and we'll see how it goes. Cool? Cool.)
I can't believe that ZZS doesn't actually know at least rumours of the Glazed Armor, he's far too well informed. Even if Tian Chuang is relatively new and not an old organization, he knows a lot of things from twenty or thirty years ago, I have trouble believing this hasn't come to his ears.
Meanwhile, WKX knows a lot about it, which doesn't surprise us who we know the story, but which should give ZZS pause.
This back and forth passing the two of them do here is quite interesting because WKX doesn't actually want it - knows its useless because he destroyed the key - but I still think now holding it in his hands, he is still reluctant to let go (for good reason, considering all that happened to his family for this)...and is then baffled when ZZS doesn't actually want it either. In hindsight this is probably one of the moments that nudge WKX more towards his own humanity. ZZS meanwhile can't be bothered by it, but still lets WKX very much into his space here even if he's mad with WKX for killing him.
Chinese version: 温善人
Sparklingwater version: Good Person Wen
Xuxunette version: Saint Wen
善人 is 'philantropist', 'welldoer' so sparklingwater's original version fits better. I'm not sure how Buddhism's stand is towards saints in general, but tbh it's somewhat strongly connotated with Christianity and adjacent religions, so I'd not go for this either way.
Most illuminating, probably more for ZZS than for WKX, is the fact that they've been stuck with each other for 24 hours and neither of them has killed the other.
A'Xiang to the rescue! Although ZZS comparing himself and WKX to giant turnips is not exactly charming. :D
What is quite interesting, to me, is that here there are people other than Gu Xiang call WKX 主人, who WKX even addresses by name, and ZZS seems to not be interested at all. Whether that is true or just make believe is hard to say. And even when there are multiple people...ZZS doesn't seem to react at all.
We know ZZS knows WKX' identity as Valley Master later on and it's not made into much of a production at all, but I wonder when he started to suspect. Was it this early on or only a little later?
"And I’m gonna follow you whether you want me to or not." Wen Kexing, everyone. XD
Next week, August 03, we're discussing chapters 15-17, where Zhou Zishu figures if Wen Kexing will follow him anyway he might as well get the most out of it (i.e., food, because this Zhou Zishu actually eats) and Wen Kexing keeps flirting incessantly (what else is new). Also, Cao Weining joins the cast!
Today's chapters are:
Chapter 12 – Illusions
Chapter 13 – Exposed
Chapter 14 – Escape
Zhou Zishu and Wen Kexing spend a whole day together in the cave they fell into last time without seriously trying to kill each other. Some other stuff happens, but that's the important bit.
Chapter 12
- "He heard Wen Kexing let out an “Oh”, then, “Do you have internal injuries?”
Zhou Zishu turned his head to glance at the other and replied calmly, “Just haven’t had enough food tonight.”"
Chapter 13
- "He wasn’t an expert in medicines, but he had associated with them: as the Crown Prince, the Emperor had been friendly with a young alchemist from Nanjiang held hostage at the capital. Said young savant used to impersonate a member of “The Shamans’ Valley” to mingle within the martial arts circles of the central plains. He had imported from his homeland quite a few rare drugs that were unheard of at the time."
- "Wen Kexing silently stood up, walked away and returned after a while. Zhou Zishu felt a spike of coldness on his shoulder, and he opened his eyes to Wen Kexing using a soaked piece of cloth to wash the wound.
On instinct, Zhou Zishu avoided the touch, but Wen Kexing held back his shoulder, “Don’t move.”
Zhou Zishu asked with a pained face, “Where did you get the water from?”
“The river.” Wen Kexing replied. After some thinking, he added, “It’s running water, really clean.”" - "Wen Kexing looked at him with pity, “Were you born in utopia? Is everyone from Tian Chuang a country bumpkin? Or was my guess wrong?”
Zhou Zishu scoffed, “Never have I said that I…”"
Chapter 14
- "“You don’t look like someone who’s in peril to me.”
He hadn’t finished speaking when, as if to belie his words, Wen Kexing doubled over and groaned. The hilt of a sabre protruded from his flank, the rest of the blade having disappeared within his body.
With his face deathly pale, Wen Kexing tried to speak. "You're such a…"" - "Gu Xiang looked at Zhou Zishu and abruptly understood the saying “if you beat a mule, it will go backwards”.
Then she looked at Wen Kexing and profoundly experienced the saying “a shameless person fears no challenge”.
As she trailed behind the two men, she savoured a deep satisfaction at having gained so much wisdom in one evening.
We get some action, which is quite nice, but tbh I refuse to believe that WKX, who has been watching ZZS quite intently because of the disguise, only now notices that ZZS has internal injuries (from the Nails). But it is probably his best opportunity to bring it up, since ZZS has actually let his guard down a little and got himself injured.
(Also ZZS, as if you ever eat enough food. Tsk.)
Fun with languages:
- Chinese version: 好像心里知道这人靠谱似的
Sparklingwater version: as if he already knew what the other was capable of
Xuxunette version: as if he knew he was in good hands
The operative word to describe ZZS here is 靠谱 (kaopu), which Pleco gives me as "reliable", which speaks more for sparklingwater's translation. The interpretation in the other translation probably stems from the fact that 靠 means "rely on", "depend on", "lean on". It's a subtle difference, but ZZS is very much not taking care of WKX in this scenario, at least not in the way that the translation might suggest. - Chinese version: 你孤陋寡闻?
Sparklingwater version: You, shallow knowledge?
Xuxunette version: Uneducated? You?
All my various dictionaries screaming that it's an idiom: Ignorant and ill-informed.
I don't actually know what to make of this. Because neither is quite that, but I'm not fluent enough in Chinese to make this call.
As ZZS sees the peach tree (one of Siji Manor's trees no doubt) with Jiuxiao beneath it, what do you think WKX really sees in that moment? At the same time, apparently they both see the underwater creatures as a little girl - probably a way to get prey close enough - so are these two things caused by the hallucinogen?
But I love their little banter here about WKX carrying ZZS as long as he gets to see his face. It's cute and since ZZS has stopped bristling and is instead giving him a little laugh; their relationship (as in, the way they interact with each other rather than anything beyond that) has clearly turned a corner. It's part attrition, for sure, but also probably partially WKX staying relatively calm throughout this whole endeavour with the confidence that he can hold his own and ZZS can recognize that if nothing else.
We get our first reference to Wu Xi and where ZZS has his repertoire of drugs (and antidotes) from.
Okay everyone… I know this is wuxia so this doesn't really apply, but running water does not mean it's drinkable or that you should clean your wounds with it! I mean, it's a sweet gesture and does show that WKX cares, but this is potentially worse than letting the wound alone until they can get proper help.
All of these wuxia heroes and their questionable medical science. Can we please get Wu Xi back? At least he knew what he was doing, mostly.
I could go on about that handkerchief. I won't because I do think it's a nice detail for priest to include, but in the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. We might argue that it confirms that the 'old lover' is losing importance for WKX if they ever were and that it marks him as gay but… Eh.
Possibly the only notable fact is that ZZS calls him 老兄, which I personally probably wouldn't have translated as "my (good) friend" as the translators do, I would probably have gone for something a bit more casual. Unless ZZS means this ironically, but I can't actually tell just from the text? Well, at least WKX pays him back for that bit.
What I love about the novel is the nonchalant way in which the identities and affiliations are revealed. WKX already asked last week, sort of, but was interrupted by the monster so it was left hanging. We get a bit of a call-back to Qi Ye here with the Flower Queen and the Fullmoon River (which is subtle and you only know it when you've read it), which is sweet, but WKX just throws the bait for Tian Chuang out there very casually and ZZS bites and confirms it… But WKX wouldn't have done it unless he was pretty sure about it. I'm not sure he knows just who exactly ZZS is within Tian Chuang, but he has deduced quite a bit here right down to the Nails.
(How does WKX, who is an outsider of all of Siji Manor, Tian Chuang, and the Court/Capital, know about the Nails? I don't remember if this is ever explained, but I don't think so.)
Once the Nails do calm down ZZS is more or less back to his self from a few hours ago, even fishing one of the creatures out of the river.
What struck me is the discussion we get about being afraid of death. I knew we were headed there eventually, but I didn't remember that it was this early. I find this especially poignant as a) ZZS is sick unto dying and b) WKX knows about the Nails and therefore must know what their eventual outcome is (hence probably his surprise). ZZS meanwhile must be more than aware of his own mortality and yet he's relatively open about his concern for death (but gives it the 'I can't go to hell with this few merits' spin) which… I'm not sure how to read this exactly, but I'm also rather sure that ZZS isn't just having WKX on here so there is at least a kernel of truth to his concerns. Thoughts on this?
WKX displays that he has certain merits as an actor, even if ZZS doesn't actually buy it (he probably thinks what a little shit his companion is), which clearly surprises him. Also his Wen "Good Person" Kexing act was almost up since they caught themselves an actual ghost.
Language fun!
Chinese version: 你真太不是东西了
Sparklingwater version: You’re so full of nonsense.
Xuxunette version: You're such a jerk.
Calling him a jerk is a bit strong here and gives the whole exchange a connotation it doesn't have. 不是东西 is literally "no good [for any]thing" so a good-for-nothing, putting the 真太 there makes it basically in a way that ZZS rolls his eyes and says 'you absolute waste of skin'. Poor WKX.
Questions here: Why does GV try to get rid of WKX this early on? And secondly, omg why is GV branding their members? I know Tian Chuang also have tattoos (the branch of a plum tree), which is equally stupid, you don't make your secret assassins that recognizable.
And we have our first piece of Glazed Armor!
(Of note: I will retain 'Glazed Armor' as term from SHL, because 'Lapis Amor' doesn't quite fit imo, as lapis is associated with a specific sort of gemstone (lapis lazuli) or colour (deep blue), none of which quite fits. Xuxunette makes the following note: "琉璃 (liuli) refers to different types of crystal, semi-precious gem and glaze work. In context, the older meaning should be retained: a natural gemstone or crystal.
Liuli is one of the Seven Treasures of Buddhism alongside gold, silver, and other substances that vary depending on the source."
So I'll retain Glazed Armor and we'll see how it goes. Cool? Cool.)
I can't believe that ZZS doesn't actually know at least rumours of the Glazed Armor, he's far too well informed. Even if Tian Chuang is relatively new and not an old organization, he knows a lot of things from twenty or thirty years ago, I have trouble believing this hasn't come to his ears.
Meanwhile, WKX knows a lot about it, which doesn't surprise us who we know the story, but which should give ZZS pause.
This back and forth passing the two of them do here is quite interesting because WKX doesn't actually want it - knows its useless because he destroyed the key - but I still think now holding it in his hands, he is still reluctant to let go (for good reason, considering all that happened to his family for this)...and is then baffled when ZZS doesn't actually want it either. In hindsight this is probably one of the moments that nudge WKX more towards his own humanity. ZZS meanwhile can't be bothered by it, but still lets WKX very much into his space here even if he's mad with WKX for killing him.
Chinese version: 温善人
Sparklingwater version: Good Person Wen
Xuxunette version: Saint Wen
善人 is 'philantropist', 'welldoer' so sparklingwater's original version fits better. I'm not sure how Buddhism's stand is towards saints in general, but tbh it's somewhat strongly connotated with Christianity and adjacent religions, so I'd not go for this either way.
Most illuminating, probably more for ZZS than for WKX, is the fact that they've been stuck with each other for 24 hours and neither of them has killed the other.
A'Xiang to the rescue! Although ZZS comparing himself and WKX to giant turnips is not exactly charming. :D
What is quite interesting, to me, is that here there are people other than Gu Xiang call WKX 主人, who WKX even addresses by name, and ZZS seems to not be interested at all. Whether that is true or just make believe is hard to say. And even when there are multiple people...ZZS doesn't seem to react at all.
We know ZZS knows WKX' identity as Valley Master later on and it's not made into much of a production at all, but I wonder when he started to suspect. Was it this early on or only a little later?
"And I’m gonna follow you whether you want me to or not." Wen Kexing, everyone. XD
Next week, August 03, we're discussing chapters 15-17, where Zhou Zishu figures if Wen Kexing will follow him anyway he might as well get the most out of it (i.e., food, because this Zhou Zishu actually eats) and Wen Kexing keeps flirting incessantly (what else is new). Also, Cao Weining joins the cast!
no subject
I like the Wu Xi reference!
I'm surprised WKX know the nails exist! (and the he suspects ZZS has them)
I love the two of them bickering about who the trap was meant for!
Zhou Zishu straightened his back and walked toward a direction, “Why? Haven’t you heard of the saying ‘the second you drop the knife is when you become Buddha’?”
I love that this saying shows up here!
[ZZS] carefully took it off, and found a sparkling piece of lapis lazuli inside. It was as big as the palm of his hand and meticulously crafted, seemingly engraved with patterns.[...][WKX] put it back in Zhou Zishu’s palm somewhat reluctantly, curling the other’s fingers around it. “It’s the good stuff.” He said softly.
I love the visual of TYK's glazed armor being made of lapis lazuli. This makes me think that the duplication (and resulting chaos) plotline may just be in SHL. [I've been reading sparklingwater's translation since it displays better on my phone's browser] It's interesting that a better translation is may be a crystal or gemstone (so now I'm kinda picturing it as a carved blue sapphire or spinel).
I also love WKX giving the glazed armor to ZZS! (especially since tyk!WKX seems to be tempted by it)
And GX reappears!