rekishi (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rekishi) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
ghost_valley2021-07-20 08:48 am
rekishi) wrote in ghost_valley2021-07-20 08:48 am
Entry tags:
[Tian Ya Ke (Re-)Readalong] Chapter 9-11
Welcome back! I'm posting early because I have a work meeting running until 9 pm today (yay timezones). Let's dive right in:
Chapter 9 - Amidst the trees
Chapter 10 - Netherworld
Chapter 11 - The Cave
Zhou Zishu intends to leave Taihu, but runs into a dead body...and Wen Kexing. Since Zhou Zishu is like a leopard who can't change his spots, he goes investigating...only for both of them to fall into a cave. Let's see how that goes.
Chapter 9
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Fun with linguistics:
ZZS knows a lot about jianghu and Tian Chuang even have their own archive, which almost means there must be spies among the sects. Curious that we never actually meet them?
Quite some information on ZJ, and actually somewhat divergent from SHL. What ZJ's backstory shows us though is that recovering your reputation, even after atrocious acts, is actually possible. ZJ's hands are certainly not clean, and this maybe should have also clued is in that he's quite willing to go to certain lengths.
We get some other background as well, interestingly in SHL the suicide of the pregnant girl was switched to Mu Yunge, if I recall correctly, rather than Yu Tanjie (for reasons that make sense when we consider the relationships in SHL).
ZJ takes note of ZZS especially after he had the complete story out of ZCL and he is very suspicious.
So traveling from Mirror Lake Sect to Taihu takes 10 days. ZZS could probably have done it quicker on his own, but with ZCL in tow he can manage what, 20 km a day? 25 km? 30 km? So probably we're looking at a distance of about 200-300 km between the two sects. If all of the five sects are as far apart, that covers quite a bit of territory.
We also actually learn here what ZZS' "cover identity" was: managing the schedule of the palace guards. That would indeed be day-filling (possibly) but not very exciting.
ZZS probably regrets letting ZCL talk him into staying around for a bit, because he has to flex his "dealing with important people" muscles again, that he probably thought he could bury once and for all. But no, here he is having visitors knock on his door continuously. Meanwhile he gets to play up his "no no I'm just a poor nobody look I'm dying" act.
I find it quite amusing how annoyed ZZS is with all the jianghu gossip. I would expect that a former spymaster would thrive on such things, but a lot of it is performance in the end (Jing Beiyuan remarks in one of the "Qi Ye" extras on this, that words are basically empty and throwing them back and forth is social grease). It again makes me think that ZZS was not just an unprepared sect leader but also a miserable one.
And while ZZS was born into jianghu and spent the first fifteen years of his life in jianghu, only now does he feel "like he had finally embodied being a jianghu wanderer now", which imo says a lot about who he has become since he became the Siji Manor 庄主, and also how he sees himself.
WKX has, of course, not left - much to the contrary, he continues to stalk ZZS just a little bit. Meanwhile we learn who the three people are that ZZS considers actually distinguished warriors: the man we will learn later to be Ye Baiyi, the Poison King of the South Sea’s Guanyin Hall (I would guess this is the Scorpion King, but ZZS actually knows stuff about him from Tian Chuang so it seems unlikely) and the Ghost Valley Master. Hmmmmm. Butter wouldn't melt in WKX' mouth when he extols on the characteristics of the Ghost Master. Humble, isn't he?
I love their verbal sparring, both of them with mouths full of knives and not giving any quarter and they seem to have equal ability. It's fun, and though ZZS makes like he's annoyed, I think he is having fun, too, against his better judgement and despite himself, probably. He justifies it by saying oh, he needs to know more about WKX, because of how he cannot let him go without knowing more about this man.
ZZS is a smart man, so he is probably registering that WKX knows something about Sun Ding that may or may not be common knowledge, but the hand is a pretty specialized technique. If he's famous for it that's a different story but...
It begs the question when ZZS exactly finds out that WKX is the Valley Master, because I assume - considering their exchange earlier - that at this point he doesn't actually know yet.
A leopard can no more change his spots than ZZS can stop investigating a mystery (WKX' identity, the death of Mu Yunge, …) and while he calls all of this inconveniences, he's still crouching there poking at a dead body. He and WKX actually make a pretty good team here, egging each other on and then acting on a "well I'm bored anyway" whim. What even. Both of you.
I also love that ZZS is all flabbergasted at WKX' caution about Sun Ding, considering how good his qing gong is. I can't remember exactly how this goes, was it Sun Ding at this point or is this another red herring considering that Xue Fang, the Hanged Ghost is?
We get the line about owls laughing and overturning water here in more or less the same situation as in SHL and we get this image a couple of times later. It's WKX alluding to his real childhood, most likely, but what I find interesting is this image of afraid that he keeps repeating. He says he is afraid, he asks ZZS if he is afraid… I don't think WKX actually is afraid, considering his life so far but I do think he's trying to suss out ZZS' limits...and if there are any, for that matter.
(Does WKX know already who ZZS is?)
At this point, where they're investigating the "path to the Yellow Spring" is when ZZS is actually having fun, we get a variation of smiling several times over the last few pages and we never got that much in the past chapters. They also don't seem to be sarcastic or annoyed smiles but genuine ones and boy is having fun.
It's notable here that ZZS thinks WKX is crazy….when he was the first one to jump into the hole and is just as much in investigation mode as WKX is. Their squabbling continues, too, and this very much sets the pace for the rest of the novel, because whenever they're together and not actively fighting side by side they're either verbally or physically squabbling. It's a very peculiar way to grow affection (I don't quite dare call it a love language...yet?) , but it's there all the same. Pretty much the only thing that does change is that at some time needling ZZS about the mask becomes a moot point.
It's curious how quickly ZZS dismisses the thought that he has seen the kind of teethmarks again that he sees on the bones. What wonders me more: Why does ZZS know what human teethmarks look like on (human) bones? Does he examine his chicken drumsticks really closely? Has there been a case of cannibalism in Da-Qing's capital? Curious minds want to know!
WKX makes his first real forays about ZZS' identity by asking whether he might be from Tian Chuang...only to be interrupted by yet another monster. The question is how does he know, is it a lucky guess, does he have previous exposure to Siji Manor for some reason (which novel canon doesn't give us)? Or have enough people fleeing into Ghost Valley brought stories with them? The face changing is a Siji Manor technique rather than something of Tian Chuang, so the question - if it is pointed rather than a stab in the dark - is quite interesting out of the blue.
Despite being somewhat at odds on a personal basis, both of them a) clearly have fun with this whole chase and the hide and seek, and b) are looking out for each other even though they wouldn't necessarily need to (though of course, the enemy of my enemy adage applies here as well).
We will investigate what the two of them have come upon next week on July 27, with chapters 12-14
Chapter 9 - Amidst the trees
Chapter 10 - Netherworld
Chapter 11 - The Cave
Zhou Zishu intends to leave Taihu, but runs into a dead body...and Wen Kexing. Since Zhou Zishu is like a leopard who can't change his spots, he goes investigating...only for both of them to fall into a cave. Let's see how that goes.
Chapter 9
- "Zhao Jing of Taihu, styled “The Swordsman of Autumn Mountain”, was a jianghu household name. Zhou Zishu never met him in person and had been looking forward to checking out the glorious hero and his famous martial lodge for himself."
- "Zhou Zishu knew their status and background like the back of his hand — to avoid offense, Tian Chuang had a separate archive of every single event and figure in jianghu in the last fifty years."
- "For example, he knew that the vaunted Zhao Jing himself was cast out by his family as a teenager. Destitute and desperate, he had dabbled in the same kind of business as “Mystic Melody” Qin Song, and only changed his name back to Zhao at twenty-seven, when he married the only daughter of the Feng family from Taihu. Having wedded into riches6, he was welcomed back to his own clan, but not before he had secretly chased down and silenced all the people who knew about his past."
- "During their ten-day journey, Zhou Zishu had learned a few things about Zhang Chengling. Even though he had grown up pampered and spoiled and was lacklustre in many aspects, the boy was still a good kid, with a good heart, who had endured the hardships of their trip without complaint.
He was also utterly guileless." - "He stood up, hesitating a little; it was admittedly rude to leave without saying goodbye. He left behind two letters: one for Zhang Chengling, saying “Mountains are still green, waters will still flow long and far”. An incredible satisfaction washed over him after writing the note, as he felt like he had finally embodied being a jianghu wanderer now. The other letter was for Zhao Jing with one mere sentence: Ever grateful for the welcoming stay."
- "My, Brother Zhou, what a coincidence. It appears fate has brought us together again. How many times have we met by moonlight already? One could even say that our heart and minds must be linked." [sparklingwater goes with 'soulmates' here, but this is not that]
Zhou Zishu smiled back and said, "What a coincidence indeed, Brother Wen."
Coincidence my ass, Wenshen." [瘟神, the god of plague, homophone with WKX' last name 温] - "If my humble person can be said to be distinguished, what about the Ancient Monk of Changming Mountain, the Poisons King of the South Sea’s Guanyin Hall, or the Ghost Master of Qingzhu Ridge?" [I've edited this quote to have the place names untranslated and use 'Ghost Master']
Chapter 10
- "Zhou Zishu squatted on the ground, the old habit of questioning everything rearing its head again, making his insides itch. He felt an urge to follow the footprints, but rationality warned him that it would only lead to troubles. He was no longer the all-knowing mighty leader of Tian Chuang, there was no point in burdening himself with inconveniences."
- "Zhou Zishu was made speechless by the other’s honesty. He followed Wen Kexing closely, looking at the ground under them at a random point and noticing—Wen Kexing didn’t even leave any footprints.
Someone who could travel without leaving a trace really just said that he was afraid of a ghost, afraid of death." - "Zhou Zishu halted his steps and Wen Kexing came to stand beside him. The will-o'-wisps cast the other guy's handsome features in a bluish glint, making his habitually nonchalant face appear sinister indeed."
- "Wen Kexing said, “There’s this thing I heard when I was little, that owls are only scary when they laugh because there will be death whenever they do. Are you afraid?” [...] “I also heard that one day at this small village there was a person carrying a bowl with red water inside. An owl knocked the bowl over, and that year twenty people lost their lives.”"
- “Under the old locust there will be an unknown tombstone, and under them is the path to the Underworld in legends. During the full moon of the seventh month, wandering souls will crawl out from the nether to return to the mortal realm. The path to the Yellow Spring is incredibly cold, and at the end you’ll see the gates of hell. Once going past that, you’ll no longer see the living, there are equinox flowers growing along the way, and then you’ll reach the Bridge of Helplessness… Hey!”
Zhou Zishu already jumped down.
Wen Kexing stared dumbfoundedly at the other’s silhouette disappearing behind the entrance before jumping himself. He landed steadily, finding out that the earth was very firm. He looked up to see Zhou Zishu’s fleeting smile and the other asking, “Is Brother Wen also interested in seeing the path to the Underworld?”
Chapter 11
- "He frowned, staring at those knives then looked at Wen Kexing, “Who did you piss off?”
The surprise question left Wen Kexing’s eyes wide open, he looked like he was greatly wounded by the words. “Why is it that I had to piss off someone for this to happen?”" - "Who could ever hold a grudge against me?”
Wen Kexing fell into silence, having enough of his companion’s bold-faced lies. After a while, he spoke with a gentle voice, “You escorted Zhang Chengling; you have killed thirty two in total along the way, including four of the extremely dangerous type like Qin Song…”
“My ass, there’re only eleven at most.” Zhou Zishu replied, “Those in the shrine died under your little maid’s hands.”
“So it’s still definitely you.” Wen Kexing held out his hands, “These hands of mine; ever since I left home to join jianghu they have not been stained with any blood, even that of a chicken, much less a human. How can it be possible that I have offended anyone?”
Zhou Zishu didn’t spare him a glance." - "Zhou Zishu thought the teeth marks looked familiar, as if he’d seen something like them before, but he never was a forensic and couldn’t remember where.
Wen Kexing looked nauseous. He took the femur by pinching it between two fingers and held it up for examination. After a while, he gave his verdict:
“It… has been nibbled quite clean, hasn’t it? A cleaner job than I do on chicken drumsticks for sure.”
Zhou Zishu pledged to swear off chicken drumsticks henceforth." - "“I’ve figured it out.”
Zhou Zishu thought the other man had remembered what kind of beast could bite off a man’s head, so he replied out of reflex.
“Figured out what?”
“Real human skin turns red if you pinch it,” Wen Kexing said, “I can’t see if you’re wearing a disguise, but if you let me pinch your face, I’ll be able to tell if you’ve done something to it.”
Zhou Zishu turned to leave without a word, reminding himself never to take the man seriously again."
Fun with linguistics:
- "This… Zhou gentleman, do you know who he really is?" is in Chinese "那......那位周大侠,是个什么人物,底细你知道么?", whereas the 大侠 is knight, swordsman, noble warrior, chivalrous hero. It's interesting that we get this translated by both sparklingwater and xuxunette as gentleman. I guess it sort of makes sense coming from ZJ, but on the other hand we are in jianghu right now. (What amuses me is that 侠 alone is also "swashbuckler" and now I have an interesting image of ZZS in my head.)
- spaklingwater: "Even if one investigated into “Lord Zhou”, they would only dig up a nominal general whose responsibility was managing the inner court’s royal guards, who was worth currying favor with but not important enough to be looked at twice.", xuxunette makes this into "Sir Zhou". The Chinese here is 周大人, which is the general title for officials at court (it appears a lot in court dramas like Nirvana in Fire, it also appears as ZZS' title in SHL)
- Ahhh, 青山不改绿水长流. Ok, sparklingwater makes of this "Mountains are still green, waters will still flow long and far" while xuxunette makes of this "Mt Qing never changes, the green waters ever flow." and Netflix and Youtube both have butchered this in CQL to point of not being able to recognize it, while Hunxi makes of this "Green mountains do not change; water flows on, endless" (yes, there's a reason I'm talking about CQL here, bear with me).
This is an iconic line that we see quite a bit in wuxia (and xianxia, I guess?), and even I know that. And to my understanding has been showing up quite often and even I can interpret it as "we will meet again", (ZZS, you lying liar). Anyhow, the reason I was mentioning CQL up there is this post which always really puzzles me for many reasons but also amuses me a lot.
What I am getting at with thetwothree translations though, is that 青山 here is "green hills, blue mountains" rather than the actual Qingshan, because this is a very well known idiom and, well, such a mood. If 青山 wasn't a standing expression though, then ahhh 青, one of the banes of my language learning. While 青 can be 'green' it is (according to the native speakers I have questioned) more the 'this tomato is unripe' sort of green, while green vegetables and eyes would be 绿 (lü/lv, green). But we see 青 in poems (btw if this is really a Bai Juyi poem as is referenced, if anyone has it please post it because I keep seeing it is a reference to a Bai Juyi poem but I never see a title, and my Chinese is too paltry to go looking myself) and placenames, since Qingzhu Ridge is also 青. So in the end, 青 is an "oh, feelings" thing. Open to better explanations, but just so you know. - sparklingwater translates 志同道合 in "See, my dear soulmate, another chance for merit gathering has appeared." as 'soulmate' but xuxunette's 'kindred spirit' fits a bit better here
- Hum so. Sun Ding: 喜丧鬼孙鼎 is "xisang ghost Sun Ding"; the characters 喜丧 are indeed "enjoy" and "mourning" but together Pleco gives me "funeral arrangements for somebody who lived to a ripe old age"; sparklingwater makes of this "Delighted Mourning Ghost" and xuxunette "the mourning-groom devil" and I have…...no clue whatsoever what to make of this? But I'm inclined to go with sparklingwater here.
- The translations diverge a bit in the way to bring it across in English which hm, I'm not sure whether I tend towards the more flippant or not (I might, considering WKX' character) but it's hard to judge here. Thoughts?
- Careful with machine translations (I had so much fun):
Original: 实在没必要跟一个随时抽风的男人往人家坟地里钻.
sparklingwater: "Not crawling into a grave with a man who was not always right in the head."
Xuxunette: "Which was a nicer plan than haphazardly following a crazy guy into other people’s graves."
DeepL: "There is really no need to go to someone's grave with a man who is always jerking off."
And I mean, this wouldn't be outside of ZZS' general diction! But I admit I did a bit of a double take and inquired with a native speaker, who confirmed that 抽风 is "acting weird and crazy, like acting in a way ppl can't understand" (and is also used to complain about network problems, in the "the internet is having convulsions" kinda way which, not wrong, thanks againierlix)
ZZS knows a lot about jianghu and Tian Chuang even have their own archive, which almost means there must be spies among the sects. Curious that we never actually meet them?
Quite some information on ZJ, and actually somewhat divergent from SHL. What ZJ's backstory shows us though is that recovering your reputation, even after atrocious acts, is actually possible. ZJ's hands are certainly not clean, and this maybe should have also clued is in that he's quite willing to go to certain lengths.
We get some other background as well, interestingly in SHL the suicide of the pregnant girl was switched to Mu Yunge, if I recall correctly, rather than Yu Tanjie (for reasons that make sense when we consider the relationships in SHL).
ZJ takes note of ZZS especially after he had the complete story out of ZCL and he is very suspicious.
So traveling from Mirror Lake Sect to Taihu takes 10 days. ZZS could probably have done it quicker on his own, but with ZCL in tow he can manage what, 20 km a day? 25 km? 30 km? So probably we're looking at a distance of about 200-300 km between the two sects. If all of the five sects are as far apart, that covers quite a bit of territory.
We also actually learn here what ZZS' "cover identity" was: managing the schedule of the palace guards. That would indeed be day-filling (possibly) but not very exciting.
ZZS probably regrets letting ZCL talk him into staying around for a bit, because he has to flex his "dealing with important people" muscles again, that he probably thought he could bury once and for all. But no, here he is having visitors knock on his door continuously. Meanwhile he gets to play up his "no no I'm just a poor nobody look I'm dying" act.
I find it quite amusing how annoyed ZZS is with all the jianghu gossip. I would expect that a former spymaster would thrive on such things, but a lot of it is performance in the end (Jing Beiyuan remarks in one of the "Qi Ye" extras on this, that words are basically empty and throwing them back and forth is social grease). It again makes me think that ZZS was not just an unprepared sect leader but also a miserable one.
And while ZZS was born into jianghu and spent the first fifteen years of his life in jianghu, only now does he feel "like he had finally embodied being a jianghu wanderer now", which imo says a lot about who he has become since he became the Siji Manor 庄主, and also how he sees himself.
WKX has, of course, not left - much to the contrary, he continues to stalk ZZS just a little bit. Meanwhile we learn who the three people are that ZZS considers actually distinguished warriors: the man we will learn later to be Ye Baiyi, the Poison King of the South Sea’s Guanyin Hall (I would guess this is the Scorpion King, but ZZS actually knows stuff about him from Tian Chuang so it seems unlikely) and the Ghost Valley Master. Hmmmmm. Butter wouldn't melt in WKX' mouth when he extols on the characteristics of the Ghost Master. Humble, isn't he?
I love their verbal sparring, both of them with mouths full of knives and not giving any quarter and they seem to have equal ability. It's fun, and though ZZS makes like he's annoyed, I think he is having fun, too, against his better judgement and despite himself, probably. He justifies it by saying oh, he needs to know more about WKX, because of how he cannot let him go without knowing more about this man.
ZZS is a smart man, so he is probably registering that WKX knows something about Sun Ding that may or may not be common knowledge, but the hand is a pretty specialized technique. If he's famous for it that's a different story but...
It begs the question when ZZS exactly finds out that WKX is the Valley Master, because I assume - considering their exchange earlier - that at this point he doesn't actually know yet.
A leopard can no more change his spots than ZZS can stop investigating a mystery (WKX' identity, the death of Mu Yunge, …) and while he calls all of this inconveniences, he's still crouching there poking at a dead body. He and WKX actually make a pretty good team here, egging each other on and then acting on a "well I'm bored anyway" whim. What even. Both of you.
I also love that ZZS is all flabbergasted at WKX' caution about Sun Ding, considering how good his qing gong is. I can't remember exactly how this goes, was it Sun Ding at this point or is this another red herring considering that Xue Fang, the Hanged Ghost is?
We get the line about owls laughing and overturning water here in more or less the same situation as in SHL and we get this image a couple of times later. It's WKX alluding to his real childhood, most likely, but what I find interesting is this image of afraid that he keeps repeating. He says he is afraid, he asks ZZS if he is afraid… I don't think WKX actually is afraid, considering his life so far but I do think he's trying to suss out ZZS' limits...and if there are any, for that matter.
(Does WKX know already who ZZS is?)
At this point, where they're investigating the "path to the Yellow Spring" is when ZZS is actually having fun, we get a variation of smiling several times over the last few pages and we never got that much in the past chapters. They also don't seem to be sarcastic or annoyed smiles but genuine ones and boy is having fun.
It's notable here that ZZS thinks WKX is crazy….when he was the first one to jump into the hole and is just as much in investigation mode as WKX is. Their squabbling continues, too, and this very much sets the pace for the rest of the novel, because whenever they're together and not actively fighting side by side they're either verbally or physically squabbling. It's a very peculiar way to grow affection (I don't quite dare call it a love language...yet?) , but it's there all the same. Pretty much the only thing that does change is that at some time needling ZZS about the mask becomes a moot point.
It's curious how quickly ZZS dismisses the thought that he has seen the kind of teethmarks again that he sees on the bones. What wonders me more: Why does ZZS know what human teethmarks look like on (human) bones? Does he examine his chicken drumsticks really closely? Has there been a case of cannibalism in Da-Qing's capital? Curious minds want to know!
WKX makes his first real forays about ZZS' identity by asking whether he might be from Tian Chuang...only to be interrupted by yet another monster. The question is how does he know, is it a lucky guess, does he have previous exposure to Siji Manor for some reason (which novel canon doesn't give us)? Or have enough people fleeing into Ghost Valley brought stories with them? The face changing is a Siji Manor technique rather than something of Tian Chuang, so the question - if it is pointed rather than a stab in the dark - is quite interesting out of the blue.
Despite being somewhat at odds on a personal basis, both of them a) clearly have fun with this whole chase and the hide and seek, and b) are looking out for each other even though they wouldn't necessarily need to (though of course, the enemy of my enemy adage applies here as well).
We will investigate what the two of them have come upon next week on July 27, with chapters 12-14
no subject
And it's also interesting that SHL decided to make Chengling only mostly guileless instead of completely guileless.
Wen Kexing’s face was serious. “Someone killed the Lord of Duan Jian Manor, and I’m a charitable person who wants to gather merits, so why not. And I’m bored anyway.”
Zhou Zishu felt like the last sentence was incredibly reasonable, so he nodded
I love that they end up investigating because they're bored! (I mean having an excuse to be aroun ZZS is at least 50% of WKX's reasoning, but still)
WKX guesses that ZZS is from Tian Chuang!
I find it interesting that Luo Fumeng is a variation on TYK's Sun Ding the Delighted Mourning Ghost.