shadaras: Xie'er holding his pipa and smirking (Xie'er with Pipa)
shadaras ([personal profile] shadaras) wrote in [community profile] ghost_valley2021-10-08 02:02 pm

[WoH Rewatch] Episode 18

As of the end of this episode, we’re halfway through the whole show! Wow! That snuck up on me!


List of Scenes
Walking through the woods. Long Xiao attempts to set off a trap, and YBY foils it.
Crossing the bridge. (Or not, in WKX and ZZS’s case.)
WKX wakes up in ZZS’s arms, and they examine the cave they’re now in.
YBY reassures Chengling that WKX and ZZS can’t be dead yet.
WKX and ZZS learn that there are drug men down here!
Long Xiao arrives to taunt WKX and ZZS.
WKX and ZZS fight the drug men.
YBY and Chengling enter Longyuan Pavillion’s front door and accidentally set off some traps.
Chengling falls and YBY realises that Longyuan Pavillion is underground/in the valley.
ZZS and WKX run away from the drug men (but now they’re outside) and flirt.
ZZS and WKX jump a chasm and tumble into the valley and are very cute about it.
WKX and ZZS accidentally blow up an automaton. YBY arrives.
Chengling runs through Longyuan Pavillion and gets captured.
ZZS, YBY, and WKX discuss how to get Chengling back. A new automaton arrives with a map for them.
Chengling gets strapped to a table and nearly tortured.
ZZS and WKX rescue Chengling and threaten Long Xiao.
YBY pulls the needle out of Chengling’s head and tells Long Xiao to yell at his dad in person.
The group follows an automaton into a cave.
Everyone meets Long Que.


Timeline or Something
This all takes place over one day, presumably! How much of a day? Great question. Could be an hour or two, could be almost an entire day.

There is no indication in this episode of how long it’s been since the last episode, either.



Recap



This episode begins with a beautiful establishing shot of the mountains! And then we move to our main characters, where YBY tells Chengling to carry Long Xiao on his back and WKX and ZZS go along with it.

(WKX’s in his gorgeous lavender robes now. I really like this set of outfits for all of them, really!)

Chengling stumbles on a skull, but recovers his balance because of the training he’s been given. Absolutely nobody is freaked out by the skull except Chengling, and YBY tells them to follow in his footsteps to avoid danger.

As they’re walking, Long Xiao sneakily flicks a pebble at a tree. This sets off a trap! A bunch of trees sprout blades and advance upon our crew. WKX spreads his arms protectively in front of ZZS and Chengling, while YBY jumps up, draws his sword, and destroys all of the trees in a single blow.




YBY also correctly identifies the source of the trap, and tells Long Xiao not to do it again or he’ll let WKX break Long Xiao’s fingers. Chengling diverts YBY and WKX’s bickering by asking why Longyuan Pavilion is in such a remote place with so many traps. (Chengling also tells a story about how he accidentally broke his own foot with a mousetrap when he was younger.)

WKX says that people hide for two reasons. The first is because they don’t want enemies to find them. Before he gets to the second, YBY says that Long Que is a yes-man/people-pleaser who’s often taken advantage of, and QHZ knew this best. WKX then continues to his second reason, which is “Sadness,” which WKX defines as “The person he wants to meet won’t appear anymore, so he just hides and refuses to meet anybody else to avoid being reminded of that person.” Which WKX then outright says is what he’d do if ZZS ever went away/died.

Chengling references Yu Boya cutting the strings of his qin after his zhiyin died, but WKX doesn’t know the reference and ZZS doesn’t react, so Chengling hurries to reassure WKX that nothing will happen to ZZS because ZZS’s so great. Xiao Long tries to annoy everyone by saying that doing evil brings wealth and fortune, while doing good gets one torn to shreds. It doesn’t really work.



They continue on, and reach a long overgrown wooden bridge strung across a deep drop. Long Xiao taunts them, saying that Longyuan Pavilion is on the other side and wondering if they’re worried he’ll activate more traps. WKX says he’ll take Long Xiao’s basket/backpack from Chengling, but then ZZS seals his meridians and WKX doesn’t actually take Long Xiao.



YBY goes onto the bridge first. Partway through, he pretends to have set off a trap, because he’s a troll. He makes it all the way across without any problems, and calls the rest to go over. WKX goes first, ZZS last, with Chengling between them. When they’re halfway across, WKX steps on a trap and the bridge collapses. They fall.

Chengling bounces off a bridge, and WKX and ZZS catch him and throw him back up to YBY. This means they both fall (they could’ve caught some vines and been fine). Chengling is not happy about this.




ZZS turns on his ancient chinese lighter/flashlight, revealing that he’s cradling WKX against his chest.



WKX opens his eyes, coughs some, and sits up. We see that WKX and ZZS are on a round pedestal in a rather dark and empty room. For once, ZZS gets to be the one to slap WKX on the back and feed him some qi. After a moment, WKX says he’s okay, but he doesn’t stop ZZS from continuing to share qi with him.



WKX asks about “that little brat” (Long Xiao), expresses surprise that he would be willing to cut them off like that, and then thinks that Long Xiao should be dead from the fall, considering how much WKX hurts right now. ZZS says Long Xiao didn’t fall, which is strange.

WKX then wonders why he triggered the trap when he followed in YBY’s footsteps, and ZZS says it must’ve been based on weight; three people on the bridge triggered a trap YBY himself did not.

ZZS finally decides to remove his hand, and he helps WKX up. They look around the room, where the viewer sees drug men not-zombies skulking about as WKX says he thought this was the netherworld. ZZS says that the fall wasn’t that high, and WKX wouldn’t have fainted if it weren’t for him (implying that WKX cushioned his fall? unclear.), but they must’ve hit a second trap on the way down that brought them here.



Back up at the bridge, Chengling’s still staring down into the foggy abyss while YBY stands next to him. He’s very sad. YBY doesn’t have time for this, and scolds Chengling for thinking that any of the people who fell down there are dead. This does cheer Chengling up.



Down in the pit, a creepy hand grabs ZZS’s wrist. He thinks it’s WKX being nervous.




WKX’s like “What? No?”, and then they both turn at the same time to see the drug man and hit it off their little raised platform. They recognise the drug men, and then the ceiling above them opens to give them a splendid spotlight effect as more drug men close in.



Long Xiao, back in his wheelchair, laughs at them from a balcony-like jut of rock. He tells them he wanted them to die, but now he wants them to enjoy his traps first. Long Xiao also tells them that this group of drug men are the first ones he made, and he’s very proud of his children and likes feeding them passerby. Like, in this case, WKX and ZZS.

ZZS is annoyed that Long Que’s kid conspired with the Scorpions to make drug men. Long Xiao is annoyed that ZZS thinks so well of Long Que. WKX says that because Long Xiao has a congenital disability, no medicine could cure it. Long Xiao still thinks the Yin Yang Book could, seeing as Yue Feng’er used it to bring Rong Xuan back to life after his heart meridians were shattered.

WKX verbally rolls his eyes, and Long Xiao decides he’s done with this but still needs to monologue about how he’ll live and thrive long after WKX and ZZS die here. WKX reminds Long Xiao that Rong Xuan went mad after the Yin Yang Book healed him, and Long Xiao’s surprised that WKX knows this. WKX says he’s the right person to ask about the Yin Yang Book’s secrets (Long Xiao is taken aback; ZZS looks like he’s trying to put pieces together) but isn’t going to share them with Long Xiao.



Long Xiao asks if WKX is the heir to Healer Valley, and WKX says “Sort of” while ZZS stares at him. There’s a moment of silence as WKX and ZZS’s eyes meet, and then Long Xiao laughs at the idea that there’s a surviving heir of Healer Valley. WKX pretends it was a bluff, and then Long Xiao rings his bell and commands the drug men to kill WKX and ZZS.

WKX and ZZS then draw their weapons and are utterly gorgeous together as they fight off all the drug men. They’re perfectly coordinated, and it’s absolutely lovely to watch.





They stand back to back, complaining about how many drug men there are. WKX worries that ZZS might overextend himself. ZZS tells him to stop worrying, and then says “My life is worthwhile with you as my friend”, and WKX returns the sentiments. ZZS smiles a little and then tells him to stop quoting poetry, and then they return to beating up the drug men who so kindly waited for them to have their feelings.




ZZS notices a weak spot in the wall, and WKX follows his attention to it.

Meanwhile, YBY and Chengling open the door that theoretically leads into Longyuan Pavillion proper. It’s a big room full of clockwork. YBY calls out to Long Que, introducing himself. There’s no answer. YBY says he’ll look around the room for traps, and tells Chengling to stay put. Chengling does not stay put, because he sees something that might’ve been dangerous to YBY.



YBY dodges swinging chains while Chengling dodges knives that sprout from the floor. When the knives stop sprouting from the floor, Chengling pauses for a moment and then a trapdoor opens beneath him. YBY hears him scream and looks over just in time to see the trapdoor close. Chengling rolls down a tunnel, and YBY draws his sword but can’t cut through Longyuan Pavillion’s floor.

YBY yells at the absent Long Xiao, then moves deeper into the pavilion. He realises the real Longyuan Pavillion is underground, and we get some gorgeous shots of architecture reaching into vast caverns.




Chengling is dumped out of the tunnel into a nice little room. It’s pretty much empty, except for the gears on the walls reminding us that we’re in a steampunk place. He calls out for his shifu. A door opens, revealing Long Xiao, flanked by two empty-eyed people. Chengling asks where his shifu is, and Long Xiao says ZZS might be dead by now, then threatens Chengling with death. Long Xiao’s minions advance on Chengling, and he starts showing off that he’s gotten very good at dodging as he runs away from them.



WKX and ZZS have escaped from the drug men and their cave! ZZS complains to WKX that every time he’s run away it’s been because of WKX, and WKX laughs. They banter a bit, and WKX calls ZZS first “A-Xu” and then “Zhou-xianggong” (周相公), which the internet tells me is a dated form of address from a wife to her husband. It’s translated as “my dear” on youtube. I’m truly fascinated and would love to know what other potential translation there is that allowed them to get away with this. (Netflix doesn’t translate “Zhou-xianggong” at all.)




Their bantering (flirting with violence) is interrupted by yet more drug men scrambling up the path after them! They run, and reach the end of the path, overlooking a lovely drop. WKX pulls a large glowing pearl out of his sleeve and drops it; it illuminates a ledge they might be able to jump to. WKX tells ZZS to let him go first. ZZS scorns this idea. (One of the many romantic songs begins playing in the background.)

WKX does still jump first, and easily makes it across. He turns and calls ZZS to join him. ZZS jumps, but some drug men grab on and slow his momentum.



There’s a lovely romantic slow-mo of ZZS extending his hand and WKX reaching out to him as the music swells. WKX catches him but doesn’t stop their momentum, and they roll down a passage together, ending up lying side-by-side on a grassy field.




ZZS thanks WKX, and WKX pulls him up to his feet. (Is ZZS being a dick about not making any effort to help because it’s fun, or did his body just go “nope!” for a moment because of the Nails?) When they’re both upright, they start looking around this surprising and beautiful field.



In the field, they see a guy leading a cow. He doesn’t respond when they call out to him, so they approach and discover that this is an automaton! Even ZZS is surprised by how skillfully made these are. WKX calls them evil, which ZZS comments upon. The puppet, possibly because WKX shoved it (possibly because WKX insulted it), blows up.



A bit of WKX’s sleeve catches on fire from this. ZZS notices first, and cuts it away before WKX can notice or comment. (Because, clearly, we need the reciprocal cutsleeve moment from ep6.) (Also, I don’t think any fire is visible in the preceding shots, when we do see that part of his sleeve.)

YBY appears, commenting on how of course they aren’t dead and were just flirting with each other. ZZS asks where Chengling is, and YBY doesn’t respond until WKX (less politely) repeats the question. Then he tells them he lost Chengling. We get a single moment of “Huh?” from both WKX and ZZS before the scene cuts.



Chengling is running through the halls of Longyuan Pavillion! Unfortunately, he gets trapped between two grates and Long Xiao and his mooks have a chance to catch up. (He could have escaped if he’d chosen to dive under the first grate, but he isn’t thinking like that.) Long Xiao insults him and tells him he can’t escape, then promises to torture him.



Back with the adults, WKX’s pacing while YBY’s poking around a diagram as ZZS watches. WKX is stressed about “their kid” being in Long Xiao’s hands, but YBY tells him not to rush and ZZS explains that they need to figure out the trap. WKX thinks they should just break it through force. YBY explains why that’s a terrible idea: purple-golden liquid (zǐ liú jīn, 紫流金, which iirc is the same term used in Sha Po Lang for the magic oil that powered their mechs) explodes violently when ignited. (YBY uses this to mock WKX for his ignorance.)



A puppet in a wheelchair approaches them, holding a scroll on its lap. WKX goes over and takes the scroll. ZZS and YBY silently watch as he reads it and discovers it’s a map of Longyuan Valley.

Chengling, unfortunately, is getting strapped to a table. He is not happy about this, but he also can’t struggle free. Once he’s strapped in, the table rises to a 45 degree angle, which means he can probably just barely make eye contact with Long Xiao. Chengling first asks why they tied him up, then shouts for them to “Kill me if you dare!”, which is adorable of him. He’s such a brave youth!



Long Xiao says he won’t kill him, because their dads were good friends twenty years ago. Chengling thinks this relationship means they can talk things through, while Long Xiao says it’s why he’ll drag out Chengling’s death. Long Xiao says he’s trained his two silent minions personally, and they’ll take good care of Chengling.

The table lowers. Long Xiao threatens to take Chengling’s eyeballs for medicinal materials. One of his minions pulls out an acupuncture needle and inserts it into Chengling’s head. Long Xiao says he’s lived in darkness his whole life, and that’s why he likes being underground.

Just as a minion is about to scoop out Chengling’s eyeball, an explosion rocks the room! The ceiling breaks open, and ZZS and WKX enter together through that hole.



ZZS beats up the minions while WKX tosses Long Xiao around by his throat. It takes a very short amount of time for everything to be settled, and then ZZS breaks the chains on Chengling. He goes to pull out the needle in Chengling’s head, but Chengling makes a sound when he touches it and ZZS halts.



WKX is mostly paying attention to Long Xiao, who correctly figures out how they got through so fast. WKX seems quite pleased about exploding everything, and holds up an automaton’s heart. Long Xiao is distressed about his kids (said automatons) having been used this way. WKX’s scornful of the nature of his kids, and pleased to have used them to blow things up.



ZZS stops WKX from throwing the last heart at Long Xiao, instead wanting to use it as a threat to get Long Xiao to say if the needle in Chengling’s head can be safely removed. Long Xiao just laughs and refuses to tell him, saying Chengling will die with him. WKX picks up the eyeball scoop, and threatens to torture Long Xiao.

YBY arrives before anyone can act on these threats. He goes over, looks at the needle, and pulls it out before ZZS can explain why it was still there, saying first “I won’t let him die” and then “If he dies, I’ll get you a new one”. ZZS looks after Chengling, who’s very happy that he’s been rescued by ZZS again.

Chengling tells ZZS what Long Xiao threatened to do, and ZZS again disparages Long Xiao as being nothing like his dad. Long Xiao continues to be mad about how Long Que treated him, which really seems overwrought. YBY tells Long Xiao he can say these things to his dad himself.



The next shot shows YBY carrying Long Xiao back out in the valley, the other three trailing behind him. They reach the automaton in a wheelchair, which is even more clearly modeled after Long Xiao now. The characters discuss this, and then the automaton begins leading them through the valley.



They follow it into a cave. The automaton stops just inside the entrance. Chengling comments on it being stinky, and Long Que’s voice wafts from inside, talking about being a “dead-alive person” with poor hospitality. YBY entrs, and the other three follow.

Somehow, in this cave, there are candles lit. I suppose if Long Que can control his automatons, he can light candles. Long Que is kept on a little rock in a little moat, all chained up. We don’t get a very good look at him at first.



YBY drops Long Xiao on the ground. The camera zooms in to show Long Que, chains stuck through his shoulders and looking surprisingly peaceful. Long Que recognises Zhou Zishu, just as Zhou Zishu recognises him. Long Que asks after ZZS’s master, and ZZS rushes up to his side. He kneels, then explains that QHZ is dead. Long Que says that of course he remembers ZZS; he has nothing else but his memories to keep him company.



Long Que remembers what ZZS was like when ZZS first arrived at Siji Manor, then sighs over the news of QHZ’s death and mentions that “some people are alive who are better to be dead.” YBY takes this as an opportunity to say that Long Que should’ve killed Long Xiao long ago. Long Que says that “He’s not my son, he’s a beast”, which is a very unkind thing to say even if Long Xiao’s been a shitty person to him specifically.

YBY says he doesn’t care about what’s going on between Long Que and Long Xiao, but Long Xiao is fucking with people outside Longyuan Pavillion and Long Que should do something about it. Long Que says he can’t, and flips back his robe to reveal that his legs have been amputated at the knees. Everyone’s shocked about this, and Long Que says he’s been trapped here for years by Long Xiao.

Long Xiao says he’s a beast, but even beasts are kinder to their offspring than Long Que is to him. Long Xiao’s still going on about there being a possible cure for him that Long Que never tried to get. ZZS defends Long Que, and Long Que says that Long Xiao’s talking about the Yin Yang Book, which is in the World’s Armory.

The episode ends on a shot of WKX’s face.





General Commentary

This episode sure has a lot of opinions about disability! I do not have the knowledge or experience to get into it, beyond going: Wow this seems kind of fucked up!

I am pretty sure that on my initial watch I just kind of tried to ignore all of it in favor of the wenzhou going on; I hadn’t remembered just how much this episode got into it.

But also, like, it’s so easy to just look at all the wenzhou going on! So many smiles! So much hand-holding! So much physical coordination as they act and fight together! I am overcome! Honestly, even moreso when I was doing my second round of watching to gather screenshots, because that’s the watchthrough where I’m really focused on visuals and get overwhelmed by how happy they look.

Anyway. Some other things!

Wen Kexing not getting Chengling’s reference to Yu Boya pretty much exemplifies his piecemeal education. This is the kind of story that young gentlemen would know as a matter of course, and I get the idea that it’d also be decently known amongst well-off commonfolk.

I’m in love with the architecture shown here. I love buildings hanging off the ceilings of giant caves, and I love all the bridges between the mountain spires, and the wide open green fields are a striking contrast to both of those. It’s just so pretty! I get the thematic reasons why SHL doesn’t have them stay here (Siji Manor takes on a greater thematic importance), but looking at this I can easily see how TYK’s story could let them all hang out here through the whole winter…

I have no idea when Long Xiao would’ve gotten in contact with the Scorpions to make the drug men with/for them. (Which, like: This is a problem SHL introduced by having them be Long Xiao’s children instead of the Scorpion King’s. But Xie-wang here seems less likely to have done something like this, so… I get why they made this choice.)

Ye Baiyi puts on such a good front of not caring very much, but the way he reacts in the moment to Zhou Zishu and Wen Kexing throwing Chengling up to him shows that he really does care about all three of these people. And even though he pretends to be chill when he finds Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu again, Ye Baiyi’s immediate reaction to Chengling’s disappearance is pretty clearly “Oh no!” with real emotion behind it.

Chengling sure keeps getting captured and tied up! Poor kiddo.

I adore the moment where Ye Baiyi just pulls the needle out of Chengling’s head and goes “[If he dies] I’ll get you a new one”. He acts so confidently, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he really did have an edge of anxiety after seeing Zhou Zishu freak out. But he’s gotta put on that act like he knows exactly what he’s doing anyway!

I’m so fascinated by the clockwork mechanisms of Longyuan Pavillion. They’re such a different aesthetic than the rest of this wuxia world! Especially the automatons/puppets themselves! They’re such good robots! I wish we got more about how they all worked, but also they kind of need to lean on the magic side of things in order to fit into wuxia as well as they do.

IIRC, Zhou Zishu having meathooks through his shoulders when he’s in Prince Jin’s dungeons at the end of ep30 was a last-minute addition. I wonder if it was meant to parallel Long Que here.


Discussion Prompts/Questions

1. Thoughts or feelings about Longyuan Pavillion, now that we’ve seen it? It’s such a different place than any other location in this show!

2. Top three wenzhou moments of the episode? Or just wenzhou feels in general; there’s a lot of potential for them!

3. We’re halfway through the show now! What do you think of that? Is it a surprise? Does it feel like it’s come too soon? Are there things you expected should’ve happened by this point that haven’t yet? (Or things you thought happened later that have already occurred?)


Next Time: History lessons! Mostly from Long Que, with some help from Zhao Jing ranting at memorial tablets and Ye Baiyi being sad.
shipperslist: nasa landsat image of a river looking like the letter S (Default)

[personal profile] shipperslist 2021-10-08 07:34 pm (UTC)(link)
#2: *points at everything in the Sherlock red string of conspiracy -way*

WKX and ZZS then draw their weapons and are utterly gorgeous together as they fight off all the drug men. They’re perfectly coordinated, and it’s absolutely lovely to watch.--ZZS smiles a little and then tells him to stop quoting poetry, and then they return to beating up the drug men who so kindly waited for them to have their feelings.
And there's eyefucking! Never a bad time for eyefucking! Dear gods it's so pretty!

They banter a bit, and WKX calls ZZS first “A-Xu” and then “Zhou-xianggong” (周相公), which the internet tells me is a dated form of address from a wife to her husband. It’s translated as “my dear” on youtube. I’m truly fascinated and would love to know what other potential translation there is that allowed them to get away with this. (Netflix doesn’t translate “Zhou-xianggong” at all.)
That's fascinating! I have no recollection of what the Viki subs say...
shipperslist: nasa landsat image of a river looking like the letter S (Default)

[personal profile] shipperslist 2021-10-09 01:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Haha, true. 😁

Yeah, I noticed! Like, the most unromantic thing ever. I would’ve never thought there was anything special aboutbit if you didn’t point it out.
aurumcalendula: gold, blue, orange, and purple shapes on a black background (Default)

[personal profile] aurumcalendula 2021-10-09 05:44 pm (UTC)(link)
It's definitely the least romantic sounding of the options! (going from various dictionary/ translation sites, it seems like it can be translated as 'my darling/ my dear', 'sire/ my lord', or 'husband')
aurumcalendula: blue-green image of Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu facing each other ('save it')

[personal profile] aurumcalendula 2021-10-08 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Long Xiao asks if WKX is the heir to Healer Valley, and WKX says “Sort of” while ZZS stares at him. There’s a moment of silence as WKX and ZZS’s eyes meet, and then Long Xiao laughs at the idea that there’s a surviving heir of Healer Valley. WKX pretends it was a bluff

This is really interesting in retrospect (although iirc I did think he was bluffing on my first watch through) - especially in light of their conversation at the end of the previous episode!


1) tbh I usually end up paying more attention to wenzhou than Longyuan Pavillion. I'm kinda curious where the field is in relation to the pavilion (inside it? under it?). The maze-like-ness of it and Long Que being stuck in a cave reminded me of the Peach Blossom Island parts of Legend of the Condor Heroes.

2) WKX waking up cradled in ZZS' lap! Their twirlly fight scene (I love how they stare into each other's eyes)! The sequence of WKX catching ZZS and the two of them rolling down the tunnel and ending up in the field! I'm also delighted by ZZS cutting WKX's sleeve (and how nonplussed WKX looks about it).

3) I'm a bit surprised we're already at the halfway point, since it feel like so much stuff has yet to happen.
aurumcalendula: blue-green image of Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu facing each other ('save it')

[personal profile] aurumcalendula 2021-10-08 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)
They banter a bit, and WKX calls ZZS first “A-Xu” and then “Zhou-xianggong” (周相公), which the internet tells me is a dated form of address from a wife to her husband. It’s translated as “my dear” on youtube. I’m truly fascinated and would love to know what other potential translation there is that allowed them to get away with this. (Netflix doesn’t translate “Zhou-xianggong” at all.)

Viki goes with "A'Xu! Lord Zhou, have pity on me" for that line (I love that YouTube uses 'my dear').
peachpai: (ghost valley)

[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-09 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
I think I promised Long Xiao thoughts at some point a few episodes ago, but I am so not caught up. :( I might come back to this later when I catch up to this episode, but here's some broad strokes about the narrative anyway:

There's a recurring disability-as-punishment theme in in SHL--you see it with the Long family, with the Nails, with Scorpion's revenge on Zhao Jing, and maybe one or two other times, but those are the ones that stood out the most to me. As a media trope applied uncritically and without any attempt at subversion, it is pretty fucked up. For disabled people, that our disabilities are somehow our fault and/or that we deserve it is the same tired old bullshit that gets repackaged over and over again ad nauseum. It's also not unique to any particular part of the world. Zhou Zishu's character arc escapes this somewhat by demonstrating that he gains freedom and happiness via disability and acceptance, even though he also sees it through the lens of self-punishment.
peachpai: (ghost valley)

[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-10 05:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't feel burdened at all, don't worry! <3 It's just something I've been wanting to talk about since there seems to be a void of Long Xiao meta floating around? (I am catching up, I watched ep 16 & 17 over the last couple of days!)

Ah, I know what I forgot to add to that list - Prince Jin! I always forgot about that one since we don’t ever see the result of his injuries on screen. For some of them I think it's easy to feel like it's justified because characters like Prince Jin and Zhao Jing are genuinely awful people with no real remorse for things they've done, but that sort of discourse is a slippery slope to me. It's easy to slip from that to, well, maybe ZZS deserves the nails for all the things he did in the past, rather than acknowledging such extreme self-harm is already a result of pain and trauma, he was sick long before he put the first nail in. Framing it like that, I think, might make it easier to understand Long Xiao's anger. But anyway, I need to rewatch the episode still!
Edited 2021-10-10 17:19 (UTC)
peachpai: (ghost valley)

[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-12 01:22 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that's probably true, though I wish it weren't so - making mistakes isn't the end of the world, it's better than silence imo! There's enough silence around disability in fandom as it is.

For the record, I still haven't rewatched the episode before writing this and I'm skirting around Long Xiao in detail again, but in a freaky bit of serendipity, my favorite disabled sci-fi author posted a blog about disability tropes in fiction the other day and I thought it might be appropriate to share here because she touches on the big issues with characters like Long Xiao: Medical Leave Reflections. It's also not so much about "good" or "bad" representation because those are subjectively defined, but about the fact that there's little diversity in fictional disability stories. With ZZS I think we do get a different kind of story - one that, at least to me, breaks out of various molds, but the same is not true for the rest of SHL. Villainy, helplessness, and death go hand in hand with the Long family, Prince Jin, and Zhao Jing - it meshes pretty neatly with the punishment theme.
peachpai: (Default)

[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-14 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
(Welp, I'm caught up watching just in time for the next discussion post oops.)

Yeah, it's so bad anymore ugh. But it don't see it changing any time soon, alas.

She is indeed! We met at a convention once when both of us were using mobility aids, so that was a really fun experience. Oddly, I discovered her through disabled academia rather than her fiction books (and then also ended up loving her fiction). And no worries, it's not like I didn't actually watch the episode until...uhhh...today LOL. I'm glad you liked the blog! I thought it laid out the issue in a way that was really clear, much better than I could do.

The cure thing is interesting in Long Xiao's case because, in general, there's really nothing inherently bad about a disabled person wanting a cure and working towards one by, for example, trying a controversial treatment. ZZS arriving at that conclusion is framed as a loving recovery from suicidal depression, and as a reward for choosing to stop serving an unjust cause. Long Xiao arriving at that conclusion is framed as (like you said) a childish fantasy, as well as morally wrong for being in his own self-interest. I think it's likely the difference is presented this way because his disability is congenital and highly visible. I think I need to watch the next episode to finish that thought, though.
Edited 2021-10-14 20:59 (UTC)
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[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-18 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, the age confusion drives me bananas since the script itself seems to be unclear on the direction it was going there. Most of the (with the exception of like, Gao Chong maybe??) attendees of the Heroes Conference during his initial appearance don't acknowledge his age status. On rewatch I did catch more details that indicate adulthood, but it was very difficult to follow the first time around when so much was happening at the same time. The lack of perspective on that in the script definitely works against a balanced reading of his character.

Ah, true, I forgot there was the whole flashback thing with Long Que in 19. So I guess I'll finish those thoughts for 20 lol.
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[personal profile] shipperslist 2021-10-09 01:41 pm (UTC)(link)
…why do I feel like this is a recurring theme with priest? Then again, I haven’t read Mo Du yet so my only knowledge comes from TYK and the Guardian novel cliff notes joke the translation is.
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[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-10 05:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I dunno! I'm only familiar with SHL/TKY & QY, so I can't speak to the rest at all. I don't feel like this is a big theme in QY at all, unless I'm forgetting something. The Guardian drama is on my list, but I'm in the middle of a bunch of other shows right now so it might be a bit before I get to it lol.
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[personal profile] shipperslist 2021-10-11 08:13 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, no, I don't think it's just her, either, and not a thing somehow particular to Chinese media.
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[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-12 01:41 am (UTC)(link)
After thinking this over some more, I would also hesitate to make any sort assumptions about representation with a single author - we don't really know anything about priest, I think? Genre trends, absolutely, but I haven't read enough danmei webnovels to discuss it. Golden Stage squicked me pretty bad within the first quarter and I couldn't keep going with it ahaha ;;
Edited 2021-10-12 01:43 (UTC)
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[personal profile] shipperslist 2021-10-12 07:39 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, that’s absolutely true.

It’s just that the general meanness in the two of her works I’ve read make me leery.
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[personal profile] peachpai 2021-10-14 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
For sure, it's impossible to not think about it, and give hella sideeye sometimes.