WoH Episode 32 - Version Difference

[shadaras]

A conversation with rekishi on their journal (where they're commenting on the show as they watch it) reminded me of this!

In Episode 32, there is a distinct difference in versions during the scene where Zhou Zishu is angsting on the cliff and strips to remove the nails from his body based on where you watch it. (I learned this because I first watched on Youku on a friend's account, and then when Youtube caught up I commented on this scene in particular and was surprised it hadn't been shown on Youtube.)

On the Youku app, if you watch the English-language version (Word of Honor), the scene is longer than in the Youku Chinese-language version (山河令), but also doesn't have the pretty CGI scars. I know the Youtube version is the same (edited!) version as the Chinese-language Youku video. (I suspect the Viki and Netflix are as well, but I haven't confirmed that—if someone else could, I'd love to know!) (ETA: Comments have led to confirmation that all the other versions [Viki, Netflix, Amazon, Youtube] cut at the same point in the scene as the Chinese-language Youku version, but the timestamp is not necessarily the same!)

This is of interest because in the original version (where all the nail-scars are ridiculous blobs, and they forgot to add in the scars from the hooks he was tortured with), you get to see Zhou Zishu yeet the nails out of his body.

Also, the timing is different? I haven't gone through the episode versions to figure out why (because it's not just the length of this scene!), but the timings sure are different!

In the English-language version, the shirtless Zhou Zishu scene begins at 30:15 and cuts at 31:30.

In the Chinese-language version, the scene begins at 31:25 and cuts at 31:56.


Some very important illustrations:


31:05, Youku English-language video (getting ready to yeet)


31:08, Youku English-language video (yeeting them out and screaming)


31:11, Youku English-language video (more screaming at the vast chasm)


31:22, Youku English-language video (resettling himself, no more screaming for now)


And, for additional illustration of what I mean by nice scars and the timing being different, two shots to directly compare:


31:38, Youku Chinese-language video


30:27, Youku English-language video



If anyone researches why the timing on this scene is so different (other scenes cut or added?), please share!

Comments

[trobadora]

This is so fascinating! When the drama first aired, I was way behind at this point, but I remember reading people talk about the original version of this scene, and what the absence of wounds/scars from the hooks meant about how much time had passed. And then Youku edited it to add the scars! And remove some other bits, for reasons unclear to me.

Except that they apparently forgot to update their English-language version, LOL.

It's also hilarious to me that all the nails change position between the two versions! :p

[shadaras]

I wasn't tied in enough to fandom to really hear about how people reacted when this first aired! That sort of meta (and following change) is neat to hear about. :)

If you watch the unedited version, the nail-wounds visibly shift around on his chest as dark blobs just kind of wandering in the vicinity of where the scars should be. :D It's quite something. Made them feel very alive and made of angry energy.

[bonibaru]

I watched the first run release in real time on Youku VIP. What trickled across Twitter at that time was C-fans - there also, but mostly on Weibo - had vocally complained about the original version not having the extra new scars, they felt it was sloppy continuity, and opinions were also expressed about the original version being too over-the-top, the screaming was too much, the nail yeeting was lame and gross, it was more funny than dramatic, and so on. The scene was heavily criticized according to the tags I was reading through at the time. Youku rushed the edits to try to address the concerns in the short period of time by taking out some of the drama and adding more emotional beats, plus adding the scars in, before the EngSubs dropped on VIP.

[trobadora]

That's fascinating, thank you for sharing!

[shadaras]

Interesting! :D Thank you for sharing!

I'm still curious as to why, if they did the edits before the English-subbed version came out, the English-subbed version hadn't been edited, but that might not have any knowable answer. :)

(I did laugh at the nail-yeeting but I also really love the scene? After the first moment of "wait really?" I think it really did get across the sheer overwhelming emotion of the moment.)

[bonibaru]

Honestly, things were such a mess that whole time - for example they had translated a word in one of the later episodes as a homophobic slur which we screen shot and tried to get them to fix, they did eventually, but it took a long time. The early 30s were a choppy mess anyway, the translations started to get pretty rough all around, rumors were they rushed the second half of the series out faster than planned since the series took off in popularity so unexpectedly. But who knows if there is any truth to those rumors :)

[shadaras]

Oh, they fixed that slur? I'm glad they did that, even if it took them way longer than it should've. :)

Those rumours would make sense! :) Thank you for sharing your perspective.

[rekishi]

All of this is very interesting, thank you for sharing that information (DW is basically the only fandom space I am in these days so I...miss a lot).

[aurumcalendula]

I think there's a third version as well - in the version that's on Youku's YouTube channel (as well as Amazon's and Netflix's, I believe) the scene fades to black around 30:44 and cuts to Zhao Jing's banquet.

[shadaras]

I'm so curious what leads to all these timing differences! Because iirc the Youtube version cuts at the same point in the scene as the Chinese-langauge version on Youku, but that's another different timestamp!

[aurumcalendula]

I just checked Viki's version - like Amazon, Netflix and Youtube's it fades out on a closeup of ZZS before any screaming. I swear I remember watching a longer version of this scene on Youtube, though.

[rekishi]

This is the version I first saw until shadaras asked "so did you see him shoot out the nails?" and I was all "no!".

And then I had to go digging.

[shadaras]

Thanks for checking! :D That's very interesting to know!

[rekishi]

I never even saw the hook scars in the version I first watched (not in the one I sent you, obvs).

One of the continuity issues, I guess (but some very good comments on how this happened by others).

[shadaras]

This show and the edits it made so soon after first airing are so fascinating :D

[rekishi]

Actually I think it's quite...sweet?

I'm trying to imagine this happening on a US show and fail to come up with any sort of imagination entirely. But this really shows that the producers a) care about the product, b) care about the fans, and c) actually want to do justice to the material.

I'm probably reading too much into it though. ^^;

[shadaras]

It's a really different kind of experience, that's for sure! I'm not against it (getting extras and having communicative staff is great!), it's just that I also want a change-log, if that makes sense? So that people who are curious about what got changed when can go see why people who watched as it aired are reacting to slightly different things than people who watched later?

[rekishi]

Yeah, I get that! I would simply assume that I missed any announcements, because my Chinese is...very rudimentary and I don't monitor these things closely anymore, I sort of have fallen out of that habit. So I would just assume I missed any news on this.

But hmmm it's very strange if they never said anything.

[shadaras]

Maybe they did! But if so, I have no idea where—I also don't have any chinese knowledge/connections that'd give me that info. :)

[rekishi]

Ah okay, I thought you had followed up somehow.

Yeah, maybe they did. Hm....would be interesting how the communication stream works there.

[peachpai]

This editing of whole scenes after initial broadcast situation drives me up the wall. Live with your sins, Youku.

But yeah also backing up what bonibaru said - I watched on YT but I heard a few people say the same about it being cut due to response from VIP fans. They should have at least left it as a deleted scene for the rest of us because cutting it adds to the overall confusion of the last few eps, I feel.

[shadaras]

I'd be much more chill about it if it were just "yeah okay we should really make those scars nicer (and add in the ones we forgot, whoops)"; still not good to be doing your post-production after your show airs, but at least it wouldn't change the content significantly!

Yeah, without showing the actual removal of the nails I can see how it'd be more confusing to watch! If they're gonna have Special Editions with added scenes, they could certainly leave some deleted scenes (that had once been aired!) too...

[rosaxx50]

I don't know why it was cut, but I appreciate the screencaps. For research. Many thanks.